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Originally posted by Edward Lowy

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Originally posted by Omega

Tradition does not count for much anymore as you can see with GM they have embraced technology and removed alot of their bat production from Asia.

As you will have noticed Slazenger have taken the selling the direct route.

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Confused.com...

We have not removed production from Asia, we have only ever made English Willow bats in Nottingham. With DXM we just make them better and more efficiently.

Where are Slaz selling direct?

Kind regards

Edward

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy

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Originally posted by roco

It was a little more than that but feel free to ask Edward as they said there buissness plan included retailers but I suppose you know more than most?

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Quite right Roco, our distribution does now and will always include retailers.

Would people like to buy direct from us?

Kind regards

Edward

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quote:

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Originally posted by Omega

quote:

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy

quote:

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Originally posted by Omega

Tradition does not count for much anymore as you can see with GM they have embraced technology and removed alot of their bat production from Asia.

As you will have noticed Slazenger have taken the selling the direct route.

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Confused.com...

We have not removed production from Asia, we have only ever made English Willow bats in Nottingham. With DXM we just make them better and more efficiently.

Where are Slaz selling direct?

Kind regards

Edward

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I never said GM removed all bat production from Asia and as for all EW bats being made in England I will state that for a period your lower EW bats were made in Asia with a covering.

Slazenger sell direct via Sportsdirect and their other retail outlets.

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy

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Originally posted by Tykemania

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy

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Originally posted by Tykemania

If that is the case, why are some manufacturers raising their prices hand over fist when others are remaining entirely static? I appreciate such things as R&D but if Solitaire et al can offer G1 willow at £100 then it cannot be that prohibitively expensive...

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I can only speak for GM. Solitaire looks to be a very different sort of operation to GM - do they just sell direct to the public?

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They do - but my observation remains valid - if their willow and therefore bat prices are remaining static (and lots of other manufacturers are in this position) then why do the bigger brands keep jakking up prices?

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I hate the word but I think you need to look a bit deeper at different business "models". GM is a quality, volume manufacturer where all production, marketing and distribution overheads have to be paid for. In my view it is naive to look at a single cost in isolation and then to extrapolate from that that something is "cheap" or "expensive".

Kind regards

Edward

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quote:

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Originally posted by Omega

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy

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Originally posted by roco

It was a little more than that but feel free to ask Edward as they said there buissness plan included retailers but I suppose you know more than most?

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Quite right Roco, our distribution does now and will always include retailers.

Would people like to buy direct from us?

Kind regards

Edward

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The domain www.gm-direct.com may still be available Edward.

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Originally posted by Tykemania

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy

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Originally posted by Tykemania

quote:

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy

quote:

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Originally posted by Tykemania

If that is the case, why are some manufacturers raising their prices hand over fist when others are remaining entirely static? I appreciate such things as R&D but if Solitaire et al can offer G1 willow at £100 then it cannot be that prohibitively expensive...

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I can only speak for GM. Solitaire looks to be a very different sort of operation to GM - do they just sell direct to the public?

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They do - but my observation remains valid - if their willow and therefore bat prices are remaining static (and lots of other manufacturers are in this position) then why do the bigger brands keep jakking up prices?

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I hate the word but I think you need to look a bit deeper at different business "models". GM is a quality, volume manufacturer where all production, marketing and distribution overheads have to be paid for. In my view it is naive to look at a single cost in isolation and then to extrapolate from that that something is "cheap" or "expensive".

Kind regards

Edward

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I recognise that different business models are involved here and was not expecting you to put out a personally crafted G1 stick for a ton. But:

1. I'm not sure that you can accuse smaller companies of not being "quality manufacturers" - indeed, they tend to win most gear tests hands down!

2. I was referring to your specific comment that price rises were linked to the cost of willow clefts. You didn't say in that that you also put them up due to marketing or distruibution overheads. Whih is it?

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Originally posted by Nick_Admin

2) i think he answered that tyke , maybe you missed it , he did say due to price hikes in the willow industry, and he is talking about trade prices not retail.

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy
1 I haven't accused anybody of anything, the false linkage is yours. I can speak only for GM and what we are about.

2 Price rises are linked to the cost of willow - what I am highlighting is that our "model" involves substantial marketing and distribution overheads which perhaps a different "model" doesn't.

If we :

a) cut out the retailer
b) don't spend any promotional money
c) don't have a sales force
d) don't use SAP to administer our business
e) don't invest substantially in development
f) don't have a substantial warehouse operation
g) don't support distributors globally
h) don't have a volume manufacturing facility

then we too could make available a very modest number of bats at lower prices than we currently offer. By reducing our volume, we then would not need most of our wonderful guys and girls in Customer Service, Marketing, Finance, Logistics and Administration.

Infact it would just be Kevin and a spoke shave. I definitely wouldn't be needed, nor would my Board colleagues, so I guess I could, as they say, "spend more time with the family", and then we would all be in trouble!

Kind regards

Edward

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Originally posted by Tykemania

quote:

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy
1 I haven't accused anybody of anything, the false linkage is yours. I can speak only for GM and what we are about.

2 Price rises are linked to the cost of willow - what I am highlighting is that our "model" involves substantial marketing and distribution overheads which perhaps a different "model" doesn't.

If we :

a) cut out the retailer
b) don't spend any promotional money
c) don't have a sales force
d) don't use SAP to administer our business
e) don't invest substantially in development
f) don't have a substantial warehouse operation
g) don't support distributors globally
h) don't have a volume manufacturing facility

then we too could make available a very modest number of bats at lower prices than we currently offer. By reducing our volume, we then would not need most of our wonderful guys and girls in Customer Service, Marketing, Finance, Logistics and Administration.

Infact it would just be Kevin and a spoke shave. I definitely wouldn't be needed, nor would my Board colleagues, so I guess I could, as they say, "spend more time with the family", and then we would all be in trouble!

Kind regards

Edward

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1. As regards the quality issue, I'm afraid it is clearly implicit in your earlier response in the context of the conversation at that time.

2. Firstly none of those things are related to the cost of willow - you've previously said that your prices have risen with the cost of willow, but these are all management overheads completely unrelated to the cost of willow (unless you are suggesting that you increase your sponsorship budget and management overheads any time the price of a cleft rises?). Having done a lot of work around business efficiencies myself, it does seem to me that you have a lot of overheads and stages there that result in a much higher price to the consumer.

Anyway, let me ask you another question - bearing in mind all of the above, which would you buy yourself - a £350 top of the range GM or a £200 top of the range bat from AN Other Bespoke manufacturer?

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy
1 absolute complete drivel. My posts are there for all to read and draw their own conclusions. The intention of my choice of wording, which is clear I suspect to most people not wishing to pick a fight, is that the combination of "quality" & "volume" for a bat manufacturer has become increasingly rare these days, and is a fundamentally different proposition to niche manufacturers where quality is produced in very low volumes. Contrast also with high volume, label application operations where I do not think consistency and quality is achieved regularly and reliably.

2 once again, the costs of our bats rose as a result of willow increases. Yes, we do have a lot of other overheads, really no surprise there, what I am drawing a distinction between is our business "model" and the "model" of a lower cost, direct sale, operation which has a completely different cost structure.

Whether you wish to believe the facts I am telling you is entirely up to you.

What would I buy? What a splendid hypothetical question. The answer is that we have been very pleased with the growing sales of our top end bats (Original & LE) over the last years. The sales of these grades have grown at a faster rate than entry level bats.

Rather than asking a sample of 1 (me), the market as a whole is deciding where to spend their money.

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Originally posted by Tykemania

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Originally posted by Edward Lowy
1 absolute complete drivel. My posts are there for all to read and draw their own conclusions. The intention of my choice of wording, which is clear I suspect to most people not wishing to pick a fight, is that the combination of "quality" & "volume" for a bat manufacturer has become increasingly rare these days, and is a fundamentally different proposition to niche manufacturers where quality is produced in very low volumes. Contrast also with high volume, label application operations where I do not think consistency and quality is achieved regularly and reliably.

2 once again, the costs of our bats rose as a result of willow increases. Yes, we do have a lot of other overheads, really no surprise there, what I am drawing a distinction between is our business "model" and the "model" of a lower cost, direct sale, operation which has a completely different cost structure.

Whether you wish to believe the facts I am telling you is entirely up to you.

What would I buy? What a splendid hypothetical question. The answer is that we have been very pleased with the growing sales of our top end bats (Original & LE) over the last years. The sales of these grades have grown at a faster rate than entry level bats.

Rather than asking a sample of 1 (me), the market as a whole is deciding where to spend their money.

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1. Interesting that you see a constructive debate as picking a fight; lest that be your serious belief, let me assure you that I am not picking a fight, merely taking the opportunity to debate something I find interesting with someone who should have a great deal of knowledge of the subject. To whit, if you say that my reading of your comments (which remains a reasonable one) was not your intention then I am happy to accept that. Though - and I see this as a seperate point unrelated to what we have said before - I'd be interested as to what you perceive to be "label application" operations - because the ones that I would think of with that phrase seem to be highly thought of by many.

2. Accepting that you will constantly refer back to different business models, I do want to press this point - not about market penetration or the skills of a marketing agency and the players paid to use a brand (or at least to resticker their bats in line with it), but about actual product. So, my questions (rephrased) are - do you feel that your G1 willow is in any way better than that used by smaller manufacturers? do you feel that the DXM process substantially affects the performance of your bats? do you feel that the quality of a top of the range GM bat justifies the difference in price (often over £100) with an equivalent smaller manufacturer?

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