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KIWI
Semi-Pro
Australia
1198 Posts |
 Posted - 11/07/2010 : 23:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Martin
Nothing to do with the thread of course, but you're abosolutely right Lekkasport.. That's precisely why we are where we are in the ICC Rankings... So it must really stick in the craw that this average team has won two of the last three Ashes series, are T20 world champions and have just beaten Australia 3-2 in an ODI competition. Really sucks doesn't it ?
Well maybe the ACB, may want to take a leaf out of the ECB selection handbook, cause it doesnt seem to be working only selecting
"Australian Born players"
Note to ACB lets look at a few of the Bangladesh Players for a start
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Edited by - KIWI on 12/07/2010 07:14:58 |
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Bob Martin
Professional
United Kingdom
2178 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2010 : 11:35:48
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| Wouldn't be a bad idea that Kiwi... after all Australia's loss rate in ODIs against Bangladesh is higher than England's, and that loss was when Australia were at their peak with a darn sight better team than England had in their loss. It also took Bangladesh only 9 games to record their win against Australia, it's taken them 22 to achieve the same against England. However, one has come to accept Antipodean sarcasm when they want to try and make some rather boring point about England simply because they can't find anything factual to back their absurd ideas about players' birthplaces and their right of representation. Still, keep trying Kiwi... |
Edited by - Bob Martin on 12/07/2010 15:26:47 |
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KIWI
Semi-Pro
Australia
1198 Posts |
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Bob Martin
Professional
United Kingdom
2178 Posts |
Posted - 15/07/2010 : 08:47:44
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That doesn't tell me anything I didn't know already...But the pertinent paragraph as regards the discussion we've been having is this one
quote:
"You have to act within international and legal regulations. Once people are qualified, we have to accept that is okay," said Collier. "The issue we have got is that we want to make sure that English-qualified players force their way into that side through the system.
But I did notice that he used the phrase "English-qualified" (my highlight) when I think he meant "home-grown" After all the current crop of foreign born players are English qualified otherwise they wouldn't have been selected. |
Edited by - Bob Martin on 15/07/2010 11:23:27 |
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Skipper
Amateur
Australia
107 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2010 : 10:25:08
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| I can't recall a post suggesting it was against the rules Bob, you twisted it around into a side issue. My point was, I can understand why it ruffles feathers and dosen't sit well with many people, it's a bad look and despite a lot of side tracking by you, I am yet to be convinced the ECB play no part in these guy's swapping countries. |
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Bob Martin
Professional
United Kingdom
2178 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2010 : 16:22:19
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| OK Skipper.. you can be as convinced as you like regarding the ECB 'chasing' players from overseas, but until you produce any proof that they are so doing, it is purely supposition. It merely goes to prove that some people will only believe what they want to believe. As for twisting things around to make it into a side issue, I simply stated the reality as to the way things are, the facts. Maybe you should take a leaf out of that book with your assumptions regarding the ECB. You really don't get it, do you ? I have neither supported nor opposed foreign born players representing England, quite simply because either way it would make no difference to the argument. I'm merely defending their right to do so in the existing circumstances. As I have continually stated, if these players are qualified, make themselves available and are good enough, then morally and legally, as Collier says, there is no way to debar them from selection. Whether you, I or anyone else dislikes it, that's the way it is I'm afraid. However, maybe in your wisdom, you can tell us what you would do to rectify the situation if you were in charge of the ECB. |
Edited by - Bob Martin on 16/07/2010 18:48:27 |
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Bob Martin
Professional
United Kingdom
2178 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2010 : 19:15:32
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| Oh.. and just one further thing..nobody ever suggested that anyone had stated it was against any rules and regulations to include foreign born players in the side. However, you cannot bring up a matter like this without them being introduced into the equation. After all, it's rules and regulations that have brought this situation about. So no matter how many feathers it ruffles or how well it doesn't sit with many people, it's a fact of life. So get over it and learn to live with it, just as you have to with everything else in life you disagree with and have no control over. |
Edited by - Bob Martin on 16/07/2010 19:16:27 |
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Nick_Admin
Admin
United Kingdom
26424 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2010 : 20:44:26
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martina navratilova , zola budd , greg rusedski , andrew symonds
its not just cricket , its about money ,exposure and opportunity.
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Late Cut
Amateur
217 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2010 : 22:46:50
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| Martina Navratilova represented Czechoslovakia before she adopted US nationality. |
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Lekkasport
Lekka Worldwide
4257 Posts |
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Skipper
Amateur
Australia
107 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2010 : 05:21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Martin
Oh.. and just one further thing..nobody ever suggested that anyone had stated it was against any rules and regulations to include foreign born players in the side. However, you cannot bring up a matter like this without them being introduced into the equation. After all, it's rules and regulations that have brought this situation about. So no matter how many feathers it ruffles or how well it doesn't sit with many people, it's a fact of life. So get over it and learn to live with it, just as you have to with everything else in life you disagree with and have no control over.
If that's your take on things Bob, not march point debating anything is there? Including the laws or how the umpiring is structured, cause that's just how it is. |
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Bob Martin
Professional
United Kingdom
2178 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2010 : 08:25:43
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quote:
If that's your take on things Bob, not march point debating anything is there? Including the laws or how the umpiring is structured, cause that's just how it is.
Yes I agree that this discussion has been rather pointless. The idea of a debate is to air different points of view and if you disagree with the other side, advance ideas to add some weight to your argument. In this debate your point of view has simply been "I and many other people don't like it, ergo it is wrong" period. I have given you several reasons as to why the current situation exists and why under the present rules and regulations it cannot change. You haven't responded with any reasoned argument as to how it could or should be changed. All you have done is accuse me of sidetracking the issue. So it never has been a debate per se.
Since you bring it up, on the subject of umpiring, I disagreed and still do with the LBW Law in that I feel it gives unfair advantage to batsmen. However, when giving decisions I did so as the law required. That's reality. Sometimes you just have to live with things as they are regardless of how you personally feel about them.
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Lekkasport
Lekka Worldwide
4257 Posts |
Posted - 17/07/2010 : 08:48:04
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Sometimes you just have to live with things as they are regardless of how you personally feel about them.
99.99% of the people on the planet including you Bob would agree with your above statement.
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mububban
Professional
Australia
1500 Posts |
Posted - 19/07/2010 : 15:02:03
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Yeah, can't see this happening any time soon :
quote:
Former England captain Michael Vaughan wants the Poms to cut Proteas
By Peter Badel
July 19, 2010
Former England captain Michael Vaughan has caused a pre-Ashes stir by calling for South African-born players to be banned from representing the Poms.
With Australia's Ashes revenge mission just four months away, Vaughan has turned on his own, saying future English teams should be comprised solely of British-born players.
The current England set-up contains five South African-born stars - Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott, Craig Kieswetter, Matt Prior and skipper Andrew Strauss, who left Johannesburg with his family at age three to live in Australia.
But Vaughan, the skipper who masterminded England's famous 2005 Ashes victory, is tired of seeing English cricket pilfering South African talent.
"I would like to see, in an ideal world, 11 complete Englishmen in the team," Vaughan told an English newspaper.
"I don't think that's ever going to be the case . . . it's very, very difficult to stop them.
"It's a very tricky one. Someone like Kevin Pietersen made the decision very early to come over to England and he learnt a lot of his cricket here.
"But I do have a problem when the likes of Jonathan Trott (play for England) and Kieswetter, who's played for the South African under-19s. I think in Trott's case, he even played for the South African A team.
"A lot of them come over for the money."
To protect the identity of the England team, chief selector Geoff Miller has warned that in future they may stop picking South African-raised players.
News Limited newspapers
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Bob Martin
Professional
United Kingdom
2178 Posts |
Posted - 19/07/2010 : 22:48:05
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| Vaughan can say what he likes... but under the current regulations foreign born players can't be banned as the ECB's David Collier has admitted. Look at it logically.. Pietersen left Sth Africa primarily because of the quota system, which in effect was positive discrimination.. ie a certain number of coloured players had to be included in the team.. even if this meant excluding better white players. So surely, if England were to ban foreign born players who are better than British born ones it would be exactly the same thing. It's positive discrimination.. and discrimination is illegal in the UK. How Geoff Miller intends to get round the problem remains to be seen.. |
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Foreign players
